Although some of the most intense times at the Guatemala mission network gathering were spent in theological and business discussions among our partners, various translators/facilitators, and me, plenty of time was also spent talking about the future of the Guatemalan mission network and the relationship between the two national churches. I participated in some of the discussions about the future of the network. With no moderator or convener during the past two years, much of network leadership came from PC(USA) mission worker Philip Beisswinger and Tracey King-Ortega, PC(USA) Central America regional liaison, along with the July network gathering planning group that included Ellen and Jane. PC(USA) folks who were part of the gathering decided to ask folks in this planning group to continue working with Philip, Tracey, and other PC(USA) staff now to plan an all-PC(USA) network gathering next year in the United States. This planning group was encouraged to add more people to its group as needed (as well as to accept a resignation or two if necessary ) and to reconstitute itself in some form or another to then plan a joint PC(USA)-Guatemalan church network gathering in Guatemala in two years (in other words, in 2015). There was discussion about the PC(USA) part of the network in the future possibly supporting a parallel gathering of Guatemalan partners, in Guatemala, also on even years, or possibly going back to bringing Guatemalans to the U.S. meetings.
North Americans at the gathering, and separately Guatemalans at the gathering, each drafted statements of purpose, which I will aim to share, and I volunteered to work with Tracey King-Ortega, and possibly others, to try to start up some online social networking and educational activities – initially with the PC(USA) side of the network – that might include an e-mail list, a Facebook group, a blog, and one or two webinars, one possibly a book club discussion group about a book about Presbyterian partnership principles or about Guatemala and the other possibly a presentation, and then questions and answers, about the Guatemalan educational system led by folks from a mission team that investigated this.
-Perry
Saturday, February 9, 2013
Details
The current Estoreño Presbytery Executive Committee members are:
-President Benjamin Sacul (Pablo’s son and Familia de Noe pastor)
-Vice President Ramiro Quib
-Secretary Raul Contreras Tut (Altar de Noe church pastor)
-Corresponding Secretary Noe Chub
-Treasurer Roberto Caal (Macaria’s husband)
-At-large member Santo Teyal Munc, pastor of the Monte Sinai church near Puerto Barrios
-At-large member Carlos Enrique Tut Coc
-At-large member Santiago Chub
-Collaborator Gerardo Ich Pop
The current presbytery International Relations Committee members are:
-President Raul Contreras Tut
-Vice President Pablo Sacul
-Treasurer Gerardo Ich Pop
-Secretary Ramiro Quib
-At-large member Carmen Quib
-At-large member Maria Xo Ical
-At-large member Nury Marleny Cajbom
The next presbyter-wide assembly will take place the Familia de Noe church March 15-16 (Saturday and Sunday). The presbytery-wide women’s and youth and young adult organizations will meet simultaneously. Another presbytery-wide gathering will take place September 13-14.
Also:
-Ramiro’s correct cell phone number: 407 87225
-Milton Garcia: m.u.garcia@hotmail.es
-Marina de Monterroso (of the International Relations committee and Occidente Presbytery): marinamonerroso@hotmail.com
-Alma Lili Rodriguez (pastor of the Fuente de Luz church, a member of Occidente Presbytery and advisor to the Guatemalan Presbyterian Women organization): almalili@hotmail.com
-Miriam Mazariegos (Living Waters for the World in-country Guatemala coordinator): mimazimm@yahoo.com
-El Carmen Hotel (Roberto's hotel in Antigua): recepcion@elcarmenhotel.com
-Perry
-President Benjamin Sacul (Pablo’s son and Familia de Noe pastor)
-Vice President Ramiro Quib
-Secretary Raul Contreras Tut (Altar de Noe church pastor)
-Corresponding Secretary Noe Chub
-Treasurer Roberto Caal (Macaria’s husband)
-At-large member Santo Teyal Munc, pastor of the Monte Sinai church near Puerto Barrios
-At-large member Carlos Enrique Tut Coc
-At-large member Santiago Chub
-Collaborator Gerardo Ich Pop
The current presbytery International Relations Committee members are:
-President Raul Contreras Tut
-Vice President Pablo Sacul
-Treasurer Gerardo Ich Pop
-Secretary Ramiro Quib
-At-large member Carmen Quib
-At-large member Maria Xo Ical
-At-large member Nury Marleny Cajbom
The next presbyter-wide assembly will take place the Familia de Noe church March 15-16 (Saturday and Sunday). The presbytery-wide women’s and youth and young adult organizations will meet simultaneously. Another presbytery-wide gathering will take place September 13-14.
Also:
-Ramiro’s correct cell phone number: 407 87225
-Milton Garcia: m.u.garcia@hotmail.es
-Marina de Monterroso (of the International Relations committee and Occidente Presbytery): marinamonerroso@hotmail.com
-Alma Lili Rodriguez (pastor of the Fuente de Luz church, a member of Occidente Presbytery and advisor to the Guatemalan Presbyterian Women organization): almalili@hotmail.com
-Miriam Mazariegos (Living Waters for the World in-country Guatemala coordinator): mimazimm@yahoo.com
-El Carmen Hotel (Roberto's hotel in Antigua): recepcion@elcarmenhotel.com
-Perry
Recommendations
What I told Gerardo and Pablo, the two Estoreño Presbytery representatives at the Guatemala Mission Network gathering, that I would recommend to the Crescent Hill Guatemala Mission Task Force:
1. That we “forgive” their expenditure of $300 for communication between us which we had sent last February, which they spent instead of the theological education for church leaders program.
2. That we gladly begin to receive detailed financial reports – like the ones we have been receiving in other areas – for communication expenditures (both monthly).
3. That we change our draft partnership plan for 2013-2015 not to give a specific monthly amount for communication and that our partners and we revisit the correct amount in June or July.
4. That we report to the Outreach Council that our partners are spending the communication budget on computer time, cell phone minutes, and equipment rental.
5. That we consider feedback from the Outreach Council and the Guatemalans before we submit to the partnership plan to the session for consideration in March.
6. That we figure out a way to transmit a singed copy of our plan to the Guatemalans later this spring and that we gladly accept their own plan at that time.
7. That we add to the plan, before all of that, another bullet point with a pledge to work with the Guatemalans to explore with them other possible U.S. partners, including perhaps the Mid-Kentucky Presbytery, various PC(USA) grant programs, and (unsaid) micro-credit programs for possible projects such as the proposed chicken proposal, use of the dewing machines, crafts sales to the United States, or a water project.
8. That we would continue to explore alternative ways to transmit financial information to the Guatemalans and that in the future – only after the bank has told us that the money has reached Guatemala - we send single-topic e-mail messages about financial transmissions, with the exact amount and purpose, not only to Rene but also to Roberto (the presbytery treasurer) and others.
9. That all (or a portion of) the proceeds of the possible late spring church yard sale go to the presbytery’s theological education program.
10. That we consider future visits – one direction or another – in 2013 or 2014.
11. That we talk with Guatemalan partners during the morning of the first Saturday of every month – by Skype/Facebook video chat, or, if necessary, by phone – except for we skip this in February 2013.
Gerardo, Pablo, Ellen, and I also engaged in spirited/intense discussion:
1. About whether we need a joint, general covenant
2. About whether our partners had informed us in a timely manner about some alternative use of funds we had sent
3. About whether we had informed our partners about transmission of funds and their intended purposes in an effective, timely, and accurate money
4. About the extent of Gerardo and Pablo’s knowledge about the situation with the Esfuerza congregation and a Guatemalan Presbyterian Women visit to Kzabal
I am also tentatively planning to give World Mission’s Marisa Bustamante a $150 check as our 5% “tithe” to IENPG (more or less 5% of the amount we’ve sent to the presbytery so far).
-Perry
1. That we “forgive” their expenditure of $300 for communication between us which we had sent last February, which they spent instead of the theological education for church leaders program.
2. That we gladly begin to receive detailed financial reports – like the ones we have been receiving in other areas – for communication expenditures (both monthly).
3. That we change our draft partnership plan for 2013-2015 not to give a specific monthly amount for communication and that our partners and we revisit the correct amount in June or July.
4. That we report to the Outreach Council that our partners are spending the communication budget on computer time, cell phone minutes, and equipment rental.
5. That we consider feedback from the Outreach Council and the Guatemalans before we submit to the partnership plan to the session for consideration in March.
6. That we figure out a way to transmit a singed copy of our plan to the Guatemalans later this spring and that we gladly accept their own plan at that time.
7. That we add to the plan, before all of that, another bullet point with a pledge to work with the Guatemalans to explore with them other possible U.S. partners, including perhaps the Mid-Kentucky Presbytery, various PC(USA) grant programs, and (unsaid) micro-credit programs for possible projects such as the proposed chicken proposal, use of the dewing machines, crafts sales to the United States, or a water project.
8. That we would continue to explore alternative ways to transmit financial information to the Guatemalans and that in the future – only after the bank has told us that the money has reached Guatemala - we send single-topic e-mail messages about financial transmissions, with the exact amount and purpose, not only to Rene but also to Roberto (the presbytery treasurer) and others.
9. That all (or a portion of) the proceeds of the possible late spring church yard sale go to the presbytery’s theological education program.
10. That we consider future visits – one direction or another – in 2013 or 2014.
11. That we talk with Guatemalan partners during the morning of the first Saturday of every month – by Skype/Facebook video chat, or, if necessary, by phone – except for we skip this in February 2013.
Gerardo, Pablo, Ellen, and I also engaged in spirited/intense discussion:
1. About whether we need a joint, general covenant
2. About whether our partners had informed us in a timely manner about some alternative use of funds we had sent
3. About whether we had informed our partners about transmission of funds and their intended purposes in an effective, timely, and accurate money
4. About the extent of Gerardo and Pablo’s knowledge about the situation with the Esfuerza congregation and a Guatemalan Presbyterian Women visit to Kzabal
I am also tentatively planning to give World Mission’s Marisa Bustamante a $150 check as our 5% “tithe” to IENPG (more or less 5% of the amount we’ve sent to the presbytery so far).
-Perry
Top 10
Top 10 reasons why it was a good idea that the church sent Perry to Guatemala:
1. Ellen and I (along with some other translator/facilitators) engaged Gerardo and Pablo in conversation about the work of the partnership four times for a total of five hours. Some provisional decisions emerged.
2. Gerardo, Pablo, and I, along with some others, were able to engaged in two small-group theological discussions, about some pictures we chose, two biblical passages, and questions about our partnership. Mission was the theme of all the conversations, and Gerardo and Pablo sometimes said things that surprised me.
3. I got to participate in discussions about the future of the Guatemalan Mission Network and of the relationship between the PC(USA) and Guatemalan national church (the IENPG). Topics included future network gatherings, the purpose of the network, and the vest way to transmit money to Guatemalan partners. I volunteered to help with some online network educational activities.
4. I got to meet and talk with a number of people who we might engage in the future: the IENPG permanent secretary, the head of PRESGOV the head of the presbytery seminary in Guatemala, the only member of the IENPG international relations committee with an e-mail address, the head of the Guatemalan version of Presbyterian Disaster Assistance, the head of the network of La Patria K-12 schools, the leaders of Living Waters for the World in Guatemala, a female pastor who is the advisor to Presbyterian Women in Guatemala, the two men who emerged as the most influential in the North American side of the network (aside from the mission workers), and two people from a Cincinnati area church that is trying to set up a partnership with a fledgling multi-function ministry in Coban. I was also able to catch with old CHPC friends – besides Gerardo and Pablo – including several present and former mission workers and some folks who were involved in Amigos de K’ekchi’. I also talked by phone with Ramiro and Antonio.
5. I got to improve my Spanish via 32 hours of Spanish classes in Antigua, homework and review, and lots of practice in the Antigua and Guatemala City areas. For the most part, I spoke little English for eight days. I hope that improvement or my Spanish will in some ways benefit the partnership.
6. I got to chit-chat with Gerardo and Pablo, about the death of Gerardo’s wife, about their families, about the future of their ministries, and about the Q’eqchi’ language.
7. I got to meet and visit with Carlos and Nora’s families, including exchanging gifts, which I hope will strengthen our connections with the extended Lara-Lopez family and our Guatemalan ministries.
8. I got to participate in some difficult conversations, which included Gerardo confronting the IENPG permanent secretary and me confronting Gerardo, Pablo, and Ellen about some issues. I was also a witness for women’s pastoral leadership, another issue.
9. My visit and our conversations made more palatable the possibility that our church will not make another 2013 visit.
10. I got to talk with people and reflect on my future, including possibly a future that would involve continued participation in the partnership. Ramiro and I agreed to pray for each other, as both of us are at career crossroads.
-Perry
1. Ellen and I (along with some other translator/facilitators) engaged Gerardo and Pablo in conversation about the work of the partnership four times for a total of five hours. Some provisional decisions emerged.
2. Gerardo, Pablo, and I, along with some others, were able to engaged in two small-group theological discussions, about some pictures we chose, two biblical passages, and questions about our partnership. Mission was the theme of all the conversations, and Gerardo and Pablo sometimes said things that surprised me.
3. I got to participate in discussions about the future of the Guatemalan Mission Network and of the relationship between the PC(USA) and Guatemalan national church (the IENPG). Topics included future network gatherings, the purpose of the network, and the vest way to transmit money to Guatemalan partners. I volunteered to help with some online network educational activities.
4. I got to meet and talk with a number of people who we might engage in the future: the IENPG permanent secretary, the head of PRESGOV the head of the presbytery seminary in Guatemala, the only member of the IENPG international relations committee with an e-mail address, the head of the Guatemalan version of Presbyterian Disaster Assistance, the head of the network of La Patria K-12 schools, the leaders of Living Waters for the World in Guatemala, a female pastor who is the advisor to Presbyterian Women in Guatemala, the two men who emerged as the most influential in the North American side of the network (aside from the mission workers), and two people from a Cincinnati area church that is trying to set up a partnership with a fledgling multi-function ministry in Coban. I was also able to catch with old CHPC friends – besides Gerardo and Pablo – including several present and former mission workers and some folks who were involved in Amigos de K’ekchi’. I also talked by phone with Ramiro and Antonio.
5. I got to improve my Spanish via 32 hours of Spanish classes in Antigua, homework and review, and lots of practice in the Antigua and Guatemala City areas. For the most part, I spoke little English for eight days. I hope that improvement or my Spanish will in some ways benefit the partnership.
6. I got to chit-chat with Gerardo and Pablo, about the death of Gerardo’s wife, about their families, about the future of their ministries, and about the Q’eqchi’ language.
7. I got to meet and visit with Carlos and Nora’s families, including exchanging gifts, which I hope will strengthen our connections with the extended Lara-Lopez family and our Guatemalan ministries.
8. I got to participate in some difficult conversations, which included Gerardo confronting the IENPG permanent secretary and me confronting Gerardo, Pablo, and Ellen about some issues. I was also a witness for women’s pastoral leadership, another issue.
9. My visit and our conversations made more palatable the possibility that our church will not make another 2013 visit.
10. I got to talk with people and reflect on my future, including possibly a future that would involve continued participation in the partnership. Ramiro and I agreed to pray for each other, as both of us are at career crossroads.
-Perry
Theological discussions
A passage from Matthews (25: 31-46) about Christians having fed Jesus when they fed other hungry people provoked some interesting responses, during one of the two or three theological discussions that were part of the Guatemala Mission Network gathering. Gerardo said that both words and deeds are important for Christians. By this, I interpreted him as saying that both talking with people about our Christian faith and showing them Christian love by helping care for them are important. Both Gerardo and Pablo also talked about the threat of Hell – for those who failed to feed others/Jesus – that this passage refers to. But then Pablo went on to say that God would like everyone to be saved. It’s up to us to help feed and talk about our faith with other people so that all may be with God, Pablo said. God has the power to help us with these tasks, Gerardo said, and our task, I added, it to trust God that God will enable us to reach people through word and deed.
-Perry
-Perry
Music
For me, some of the most moving moments of the network gathering occurred through music. Two Central Presbyterian Church bands performed during the gathering’s opening worship service, and the singing by an all-male bluegrass/Christian contemporary barbershop quartet particularly struck me. During that same opening worship service, those there also sang a series of hymns, mainly in Spanish. The singing of one hymn, “How Great Thou Art,” which Crescent Hill folks have heard sung in El Estor also, really struck me. Standing next to me, Gerardo and Pablo sang harmonies in Spanish that really warmed my heart.
A final magical musical moment appeared when an improvising Philip Beisswinger – the PC(USA) mission worker who led much of the gathering and who had threatened to start singing if folks at the gathering didn’t come back from a break quickly enough – sure enough, began to sing the old Gospel song “Stand Up and Tell Me if You Love My Jesus.” Soon, Philip had many of us (North Americans and Guatemalans) singing and – in turn – waving our hands, moving around, and even dancing. During each of these magical movements – and all the more so in the totally unplanned singing and dancing moment – the Holy Spirit seemed to really be at work in the Central Presbyterian sanctuary.
-Perry
A final magical musical moment appeared when an improvising Philip Beisswinger – the PC(USA) mission worker who led much of the gathering and who had threatened to start singing if folks at the gathering didn’t come back from a break quickly enough – sure enough, began to sing the old Gospel song “Stand Up and Tell Me if You Love My Jesus.” Soon, Philip had many of us (North Americans and Guatemalans) singing and – in turn – waving our hands, moving around, and even dancing. During each of these magical movements – and all the more so in the totally unplanned singing and dancing moment – the Holy Spirit seemed to really be at work in the Central Presbyterian sanctuary.
-Perry
Church change
When I couldn’t reach Ramiro (one of the three Guatemalans who visited Kentuckiana about a year ago) by phone from Antigua, I tried instead Antonio, a Q’eqchi’ minister who had been friends with PC(USA) mission workers in Guatemala and then moved to Izabal and, when the mission team visited last summer, was pastoring a mission congregation of the Arca de Noe church in the outlying El Estor community of Esfuerza. I couldn’t understand everything Antonio said, but my impression was that the Esfuerza congregation had closed and Antonio and his family had moved an hour away. Later, Gerardo said that they didn’t know what was happening with this congregation because they hadn’t been able to reach Antonio. Ellen suggested that Crescent Hill folks continue to pray for Antonio and his family and the Esfuerza congregation, although Antonio might also be contacted again by a more fluent Spanish speaker for clarification.
Pablo also explained that a mission church has recently been developed in Acacar, which apparently is an outlying village.
Pablo and Gerardo also provided the names of leaders of several congregations in outlying areas: Oscar Tzul in Panzos, Antonio Choc Yut in Nueva Amanacer, and Mariano Cuz in Acacar.
-Perry
Pablo also explained that a mission church has recently been developed in Acacar, which apparently is an outlying village.
Pablo and Gerardo also provided the names of leaders of several congregations in outlying areas: Oscar Tzul in Panzos, Antonio Choc Yut in Nueva Amanacer, and Mariano Cuz in Acacar.
-Perry
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